League Divisions (long)

[Dennis Tilzey]

I thought I'd "prime the pump" regarding division talk.

My team is pretty weak this season. Sadly, I have to say that we feel that in several games, the opponent took full advantage of our weakness, essentially "running up the score" by aggressive baserunning in late innings where they were up by 20+ runs already.

I'm not complaining about that in this post. Rather, I am using that problem to support the view that I believe we need to divide the B division to have a B and a C division. As i see it, there are 4 teams in the B division that would greatly benefit from this. All 4 teams at the bottom of the B division have not been particularly competitive with the other teams in the division this season.

My team has 9 players who are teenagers, 4 of whom have never played before. (We also have 2 older players for whom this is the first year!!). At the beginning of the year, many of these didn't even know the difference between a force-out and a tag out. They had no idea what a "cut-off man" was. Some didn't even know what the positions on the field were called.

Clearly, this is a disadvantage, even against average B division teams. It would be nice to have a place where we can play to help these people learn the game and begin to develop their skills, at least to some extent.

The idea of a C division has been floated already (at the coaches meeting in May). If we had a division where the goal was "developmental" -- for new players and people who truly don't mind not keeping score -- my team would fit in. However, based on our performance this year, we don't belong in the B division the way it is, and probably won't field a team in the B division next season. (Sorry, guys, there goes your "guaranteed W"!!)

So, with all that said, here goes.

I think we should aim for 3 divisions of 7-8 teams each, playing each team twice through the season. The A and B would be pretty much like this season. The C division would have some modified rules. These might or might not be such things as:

1) Set number of innings - perhaps 3, 4 or 5 inning games - bat once through the order each inning regardless of number of outs. Every at-bat would be "game-situation". Keep track of runs and outs if you want. This would help guarantee continuity and help all players get enough at-bats to actually learn the game.

2) NO playoffs for the C division.

3) Players from the C division could be moved up into the B or A division without restriction or permission (on a team from the same church) if coaches felt they were capable and needed.

4) Requirements for females on the field would be relaxed -- if there were at least 3 females present, then 3 would have to play, but if fewer than 3 females are present the game would still be played (no forfeits as long as 10 players were available). This would help with the developmental aspect.

5) Players who clearly don't belong in the division could be restricted from playing in the division as necessary.

6) Two or more churches could get together to form a single team if there were only a few developmental players from one church.

I am sure there are more thoughts on this, but this is a starting point for discussion. Anyone have any thoughts about it?

[Umpire Chris]

Well i hate to play the devils advocate but isnt that what practices are for?

i understand the need for players to learn, however i know that if i were picked to be on a C team i would feel extremely inadequate...even though that may be true that i deserve to be there isnt that what the "non competitive" B league is for. We have 3 players that are playing for the first time ever this season and by all standards are no good. But through one practice a week maybe two practices on weeks with no games they've gotten better and we are seeded high in the B league.

and even if you have a C league that just creates more work and bigger holes for umpires to try and fill.... at least with 2 leagues we have at least a few ppl on each team that understand the game and can ump in the absence of a league umpire. The C league would have a terrible time trying to figure out calls and correct strategies of play. The current way it is we have experienced players that can take the less knowledgeable person under their wing and help is more readily available from experienced teammates.

Again this is just my opinion but its something to think about

[Umpire Chris]

my apologize i should have written it thus.... i was insensitive about the players on my teams feelings...... but see how even the implication can be insulting to a player just learning...

Well i hate to play the devils advocate but isnt that what practices are for?

i understand the need for players to learn, however i know that if i were picked to be on a C team i would feel extremely inadequate...even though that may be true that i deserve to be there isnt that what the "non competitive" B league is for. We have 3 players that are playing for the first time ever this season and by all standards are uneducated about the game and somewhat confused about what to do. [/u]But through one practice a week maybe two practices on weeks with no games they've gotten better and we are seeded high in the B league.

and even if you have a C league that just creates more work and bigger holes for umpires to try and fill.... at least with 2 leagues we have at least a few ppl on each team that understand the game and can ump in the absence of a league umpire. The C league would have a terrible time trying to figure out calls and correct strategies of play. The current way it is we have experienced players that can take the less knowledgeable person under their wing and help is more readily available from experienced teammates.

Again this is just my opinion but its something to think about

[Matt Thomson]

As the coach of one of the bottom 4, I'd hate to see a C league. When we made up our roster prior to the season beginning, we had no idea we'd be this, well, bad.
But I think we've all had a lot of fun. A C league with only 3-5 innings, no tracking outs, etc, wouldn't be any fun for our team.
The reality in the B league is that each of the bottom 4 teams are about 2-3 players away from being very competitive.
In the B league, a few strong girls and one or 2 guys who can bash the ball make a TON of difference.
Our girls are average to above average, and we don't have anyone who can really bash.
If we picked up one girl who was a HS level player, a guy who could hit and play OF, and a guy who could play 3B, we go from 2-11 to 7-6 at worst.
I understand that losing big isn't fun, and the teams that slide and take the extra base when they're up by 20 gets very old, but I simply wouldn't play in a C league. I don't think any of my team would, either.

[Dennis Tilzey]

I understand the sentiment about "not wanting to play in the C division". However, I think you missed the intent of my first paragraph, where I noted the level of competitiveness (not the level of competition) in the B division this year.

I am coming from the view that this year, the league leadership STRONGLY emphasized the desire for the B division to reduce its "competitiveness". In no uncertain terms, from my perspective, we did NOT see a reduction in competitiveness in the B division. If anything, I believe the competitiveness that bothered people last year was so pervasive this season that most teams forgot about the pre-season emphasis.

I am, again, not trying to indict anyone for this competitiveness. For me, it is definitely more fun to compete than to not compete. But there are people who want to play in a reduced competitive game. We have several on our team who thought it was too competitive this year, and expressed that to me (I'm the coach) on several occasions.

So essentially, I am saying, let's throw in the towel on the "non-competitiveness" of the B division -- allow it to be a competitive league for those with a bit lesser skills or those of us who are older, but still want to compete. Then, in an effort to provide as much fun as possible for as many as possible, open up a C division for those people who really DO want a non-competitive environment.

My proposal would give people that option.

[Woolsoxplayer]

today when I was thinking about having three divisions I had an idea pop into my head. Instead of splitting the B division into a B division and a C division why dont they make the B division into a B "confrence" with two divisions inside. the way this would work is that if there were 14 teams again to have 7 teams in each division.

Then at the start of the year the teams could either place them selves in a division or have a few games at the start of the year and then create the regular divisions.

How the Divisions would be broken up would be a "B one" division where the top 7 teams after 5 games play each other. and then a "B Two" division would be the bottom 7 after 5 games and they would play each other.

Then the play offs would be the same way as this year by combining the divisons and having one confrence play offs.

[Umpire Chris]

i think that is a better idea than a c league
it obviously needs to be carefully structured but its a good solution

[Anonymous]

Just to add on...Obviously there are some teams that need to be moved up to Div. A next year that are here to compete and one or two that need to be moved back down to Div. B that are here to play for fun and have a good time with less emphasis on competitiveness

[dannybailey]

As one of the bottom-half B teams, I can see the benefits of playing more games against other bottom-half B teams. Dennis and I are in the same boat, and our game versus Burley Bible was tied going into the 7th inning and ended 17-14, one of the most exciting games we've played this season.

Yes, it was frustrating and demoralizing to lose so many games. That being said, I think many of our players had a great attitude about it: "we're a new team", "we'll get more practice next year", or "I'll recruit my friends". As cheesy as it sounds, we were always excited to shutout a big-time team for an inning, it really inspired our players.

For the playoffs, I think it would have been more meaningful to keep our team out of the running and play an exhibition game against the other 1-12 team as a 'grudge match'. I wish I'd thought of it sooner. I bet everyone would have gone for it this summer.

I wouldn't want to change the current league setup though. I agree that some teams or players will accept the fact that they belong in division A or B and that will help narrow the competition. If too many changes are made year after year, it will be harder for teams/players to know where they fit.

Next spring, we'll definitely start recruiting and practicing sooner for our team. If Dennis, or anyone with newer players wants to join in for some fundamentals I can plan to get in touch with you. 851-5035