|
Post by JR on Aug 3, 2009 6:17:29 GMT -8
I hope I do not offend anyone by this post, but I need to say something about running up a score to a ridiculous number and embarrassing the opposition. In any high school, college, and to some degree, professional sports, it is considered in poor taste to run up a score and humiliate a team. In professional sports, it can backfire in a lot of "unchristian" ways.
I will not name any names; the teams that do this know who you are. We are here to have FUN, and glorify His name. I don't see any of that in totally humiliating and embarrassing your opponent. Once the game has been decided and it is clear you are the better team, why not back off a bit and allow the other team at least SOME dignity? It is an unspoken rule that you never pile on the weaker team.
Just some food for thought.
|
|
|
Post by X-Commish on Aug 3, 2009 8:47:00 GMT -8
This brings up a good point that is worth discussion. My opinion is that in our league, there is a point where it becomes appropriate to "let up" a bit. A good indicator is 6 runs. If you are up by 18 or more with 3 to play, or 12 or more with 2 to play, or more than 10 with 1 left, I would call that a situation where it would be wise to slow up. The odds of a comeback in those situations are very rare. Before 4 innings are in the books I would not say that this applies.
So now if you do put some type of system like this in place, the next question is how do you execute it. I have some insight here. A team who was on the losing end of a blowout recently told me about their game, and something they did not like. The winning team did in fact let up, but in a way that almost made a show out of it, such as screwing around on defense or trotting up the 1st base line after a hit over the outfielders head. I would not recommend this style of slowing down. The losing team felt worse in this situation than if the game would have just continued normally.
So we have two examples: One where a team did not let up at all and the loser felt humiliated, and one where a team let up in a way that was too obvious and the loser felt humiliated. So what is the happy medium? I'd suggest this: by all means slow up as the games gets out of reach, but only in a certain way. Slowing up would mean not turning obvious singles into doubles. Not running the bases so aggressively to force throws that you are hoping get by the fielder so you can take an extra base. Not running full steam and screaming at your baserunner in front of you to run faster. Not sliding into any base or home plate. Now on the flip side, slowing up does not mean that you allow your opponent to score more, or stop hitting and scoring runs yourself. Don't screw off on defense at all. Don't trot to first base on what would have been a home run. Don't allow the defense to get you out when you would not have been out. It's OK to score runs when you are letting up, sometimes it cannot be helped.
I hope this helps to clear things up!
|
|
|
Post by Anonymous on Aug 3, 2009 10:07:27 GMT -8
I agree with the commish's post. Being on one of the teams that won, a couple of us had that same talk during the game. If you give in and make it is obvious you are doing it, i agree it could almost be worse than a high score loss. Some of us were slowing up but some were not. The screeming at the other runners in front of you to go faster is way too much. Now the actions of one person has impacted a whole team. I think the saying "your only as strong as your weakest link" can go for sportsmanship as well. I heard many compliments from different people on our team toward the opponent with thier good defensive plays and on the hits too. Those were not mentioned do to the fact only the negative things stick out most in the game.
|
|
|
Post by newump on Aug 3, 2009 11:07:29 GMT -8
I agree that it is not fun being on the losing end of a blow out. I would also agree that it is not very sportsman like to keep piling it on, but it becomes pretty obvious when teams stop playing to their abilities. My team has been blown out several times during the season, but we tried to keep a positive attitude. Once the game reaches a certain point we just ignore the score and focus on making the outs. At some point the game just becomes practice for the next one. I would reccommend just forgetting the score, concentrating on making outs, hitting and playing the game to have a good time.
|
|
|
Post by bombersbomb on Aug 3, 2009 23:03:00 GMT -8
some good points by all...i have been in the situation on both ends and know that when i was playing baseball and we would get up by a lot...we usually would tone it down and stop stealing or stretching hits out...but as also said did not just stop and joke around like we were at a carnival. so good comments
|
|
dr31
New Member
Posts: 1
|
Post by dr31 on Aug 7, 2009 20:36:35 GMT -8
A few thoughts:
1) I've played in a ton of leagues, tournaments, etc., and was already mentioned, some people find it MORE insulting when the team that's winning lets up. I'd rather lose 40-2 and have the other team play hard than lose 20-8 and have the other team let up. I've been on the losing end a few times, and I find it more embarrassing when the other team obviously lets off the gas. I don't mind getting crushed, but when the other team is acting like a big brother toying around with a little brother, it's even more embarrassing. It's like saying that you don't even belong on the same field as them.
2) It's also problematic when run differential is used for playoff seeding. I believe last year a few playoff seeds were decided by run differential. It can be a conflict of interest with both sportsmanship and run differential come into play. In the B league, there was a tie for first, and a tie for third - both of which determined playoff seeding.
3) The 7 runs-per-inning rule somewhat takes care of running up the score. Yeah, you can score 42 runs going into the 7th, but to score 7 runs per inning there has to be some pretty awful fielding. If that's the case, there's not a whole lot that the winning team can do. You can quit going for the extra base and maintain a good attitude, but I think that's really all that can be expected.
|
|
|
Post by Guest on Aug 7, 2009 20:50:24 GMT -8
The elephant in the room is the fact that this league is based on run differential as a playoff placement tool.
With that as a focus it is extremely difficult to set "mercy rule" type scenarios, without an actual mercy rule. If you want to win (understanding this is a for-fun league first, and competitive one second) and regardless of level of play in the league, most players would prefer winning over losing, and to do so you have to score. If you want to make the playoffs and receive a good seed, you have to score more than you probably need to.
The Commish is right, talking about letting up for sportsmanship is one thing, executing it is another beast.
Good hitters will hit the ball hard, regardless of the score, and it would be more embarrassing to see them swinging timidly, or worse yet, from the other side of the plate.
On the other side of the ball, good fielders will make great running catches and strong throws to get advancing runners out. It would be insulting for them not to try.
Not trying would be a much greater example of showing a team up than continuing to hit the ball hard and taking the bases you are given.
Really the only thing a player can do to ease the blow is to ease up on the aggression. Instead of legging out a triple, stick with a double. But if the ball is still rolling, you better keep going - so to speak.
In conclusion, losing will always hurt, and no one desires embarrassment, but in a league without a ten-run mercy rule and one which counts run differential as a playoff placement, it's a little much to ask a player or team to stop hitting, catching, throwing and running.
As long as no one is being a jerk, or instigating trouble, win or lose, blowing out or being blown out, just sit back and enjoy playing softball with your friends and family and hanging out in the sun.
It could be a lot worse.
|
|
|
Post by fullswingbunt on Aug 10, 2009 11:15:15 GMT -8
I'm pretty surprised to hear that anybody is seriously concerned about seeding and run differential in either division during the season. I guess that makes me happier that I play in Div B. Both sides here.. Our team has traditionally let up when we are up by double-digits and it has occasionally come back to bite us. We've also been blown out over the years by teams with great attitudes and ones without. To me, attitude is far more important than score. I'm not really even concerned with aggressive style of play. The only thing that wears on me is aggressive style of cheering and such. I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. Be light-hearted, and have fun WITH the other team not at their expense. It doesn't matter if you are up or down by 40 runs. Losing to teams that are fun to play is still fun (looking at you FI . Losing to teams that have aggressive attitudes, not so much.
|
|
|
Post by familyfun on Jun 13, 2011 9:09:56 GMT -8
I think a "revisit" of this topic of "Good Sportsmanship" is in order after games during the start of this 2011 season. While I understand that run differential for playoff seeding and other factors are in play, I still think it is important to be reminded that when middle school age boys comment about a team running up the score and showing a lack of good sportsmanship when watching games, that it should be duly noted here. Hitting a three-run home run over the fence when you are up by > 10 runs and then every batter taking an excessive number of pitches to run the count up in the late innings when the you are clearly in control of the game demonstrates a lack of "good sportsmanship". All of the things also mentioned by one post here as an example were also followed (aggressive base running, etc.). While I don't mind being beaten handily by a good team with great hitters and very talented fielders, when the game is dragging on and a team is clearly in control as was the case here, you should at least be mindful of not taking an excessive number of pitches and running the count up with every batter. In this case, when the ball is in or very close to the strike zone, swing away, and at least try to keep the game moving towards completion.
|
|
|
Post by guest on Jun 13, 2011 15:17:54 GMT -8
I agree with all that is being said on this thread but want to also make note that a teams ranking is also determined by the runs scored and runs allowed ratio which encourages teams to run up a score, especially later in the season when where a team ranks will determine when and who they play. I don't know if there's a better way to rank that doesn't use this ratio but our current system definately encourages some teams to run up the score a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Galbreath on Jun 13, 2011 17:27:18 GMT -8
and while i do understand these sentiments... it is up to the coaches to start the "slow play". and by slow play i don't mean lackadaisical but courteous... the umps can suggest that they back off a bit, but have no recourse to act... which is as it should be as we can then not seem partial to one team or another. It is on the coaches and individual players to be courteous...
|
|
|
Post by X-Commish on Jun 13, 2011 19:08:40 GMT -8
I have to disagree with a number of points brought up here:
1) We do not use runs scored as any part of a tie-breaking or seeding determination. Our tie-breaker as of 2010 is runs against, which rewards teams who play good defense and prevents anyone from "needing" to run up a score
2) Hitting a home run over the fence at Homestead Park is never poor sportsmanship. It takes a special hit to accomplish that, and it has only been done a handful of times in our league. I would take that same opportunity late in a game where our team was either way ahead or way behind, figuring that by swinging for the fences it would either be a home run or a fly out (much more likely result!)
3) You can't expect players to swing at poor pitches if the score is lopsided. Taking walks is one thing and would not be good form in a blowout game, but what if the opposing pitcher is frustrated and lobbing poor pitches? It's just not reasonable.
The bottom line is this, when a game becomes a blowout in your favor try not to take walks if possible, do NOT take 2nd base on routine singles or take home when you notice a female not covering the plate correctly, and never become cocky or arrogant in the way you play by goofing off, showing off, or any type of mocking behavior. The rest is fair game. That's why we have a 7 run rule, to limit lopsided scores.
|
|
|
Post by bombersbomb on Jun 14, 2011 17:22:23 GMT -8
In reference to your comments...yes it does bring disappointment if you are being killed by another team...but it also depends on the division you're in...Div A is competition...everything should be competitive...even some things that aren't stressed I feel should be more competitive as that is what this division was made to be. Of course we would like to play recreationally, we don't get the choice being in "A". So you have to have that mindset. Also 12 runs in softball really isn't that much...there have been comebacks by teams in the past few years to win games when down by that much. In all, it is up to the player how they want to act in their game...if they want to not swing, they don't have to...it's not bad sportsmanship. Home runs are home runs....dont see how that was bad sportsmanship. As long as everyone has a good and Christian attitude (Being a church league and not another competitive rec league)...I dont see a problem.
|
|
|
Post by relworg on Jun 16, 2011 6:50:27 GMT -8
This may be a tangent on the sportsman issue, but even if it's a close game I'd rather see our team swinging away than taking a walk. There's not many things more frustrating to me than players that are going up there looking for walks, telling their women to look for walks, or a pitcher that can't get anywhere near the strike zone (I don't pitch!). I'll take a shutout loss on a team that has zero walks over a win with a bunch of walks any day. Seems more fun to me that way.
|
|
|
Post by X-Commish on Jun 20, 2011 17:55:07 GMT -8
Thanks for joining the board jr. Every season there are lopsided games in softball, I remember two games in Division A last year that were 30 something to less than 10. One of those teams on the losing end was Harbor Covenant who won the tournament. It's the nature of the game. Just three seasons ago we did not have divisions and blowout games were an every week occurrence.
We also have a system in place to move teams up or down divisions based on their previous season results. The team that scored a lot against your team on Sunday had their first winning record ever I want to say last season, and had endured countless blowout losses over the years. I have never seen them get upset or frustrated when they are losing by 20+ runs. This year it looks like they have improved quite a bit, and may win Division B. If they do, they will join Division A. If they come close, they may decide to play Division A on their own. I have confidence in our system for trying to match teams more evenly than we used to. I am seeing 10-9 type scores all the time and 30-9 scores rarely which tells me the system is working.
Again, the bottom line is how the winning team handled themselves in victory. Were they showboating at all? Screwing around or not trying hard to get your hitters out? Taking extra bases without reason? If not, sometimes a blowout is just part of the game.
|
|